Is the hybrid trim really worth it?

"MojoMotors.com" (MojoMotors)
08/08/2014 at 13:11 • Filed to: hybrid, gas, infographic

It costs more to buy the hybrid trim on most models. Do the savings on gas justify the price tag? Not really...unless you buy an MKZ. Take a look below to see how many thousands of miles you'll need to drive before you break even on that hybrid.

We evaluated car models that have both hybrid and non-hybrid trims. We built them with the same packages and then compared the difference in price. We then took the difference in MPG and figured how far you can drive until the savings in gas cancels out the difference in MSRP. We used an average fuel price of $3.50 a gallon to conduct the study.

Some hybrids offer only small MPG advantages over their gasoline counterparts meaning you have to plan on driving them for a really, really long time. As you can see in our infographic, you will have to drive the Toyota Highlander hybrid over 220,000 miles before the initial cost to own is cancelled out by savings at the pump. Thus, unless you plan on driving around the globe upwards of eight and a half times, the hybrid won't relieve the burden on your wallet.

Many of the other "super fuel saver" cars such as the Hyundai Sonata Hybrid or Honda Civic Hybrid would have to be driven more then 150,000 miles to be worth the initial cost. Most people who buy hybrids feel as though they are getting a deal the minute they pull off the lot. Think again.

Another component to our analysis is it is based on the best-case scenario. We assumed that the battery could still maintain 100% of its charge regardless of mileage. We also assumed that there would be no replacement of the batteries, even though these numbers put the cars well over their 100,000-mile warranties.

While the majority of the vehicles we studied don't necessarily seem worth it, there are some standouts, namely the Lincoln MKZ. The Lincoln MKZ is the only model priced the same as its non-hybrid brother, meaning that you'll see a difference at the very first fill up.

A different standout is the BMW Active 3. Our study found it needs to be driven almost 2 million miles before it out weighed its initial purchase cost. It only averages 1 MPG better, yet costs a whopping $6,400 more then a 335i. This number was so big it wouldn't even fit on our graph.

So the next time you think a hybrid will save you tons of cash, think about how long you plan on driving it and if it's actually worth it.

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DISCUSSION (100)

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > MojoMotors.com
08/08/2014 at 13:16

I would think 50k miles or less would be desirable as far as pay-back time. It's a number than can be attained in 3 years for people that drive for a living, such as sales people.

For me, it would have to be around 36k to pay for itself in 3 years.

MonkeePuzzle > MojoMotors.com
08/08/2014 at 13:16

sometimes its not about recovering costs, its just time to advance the tech of efficiency

Saracen > MojoMotors.com
08/08/2014 at 13:22

"A different standout is the BMW Active 3. Our study found it needs to be driven almost 2 million miles before it out weighed its initial purchase cost. It only averages 1 MPG better, yet costs a whopping $6,400 more then a 335i. This number was so big it wouldn't even fit on our graph."

TJDMAX > MojoMotors.com
08/08/2014 at 13:23

Awesome experiment. I would be interested to see it go one step further and compare those models that have a diesel variant as well. The diesel engine definitely has a premium price increase over the standard gas engine, but not sure if its more or less than the price of a hybrid....And it would be interesting to see how many miles until a diesel would pay for itself. I'm a huge fan of diesels and typically hate hybrids, but when comparing initial costs to fuel efficiency it might be a similar story.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > MojoMotors.com
08/08/2014 at 13:24

Diesels are the same. My car new had a Ł2'000 premium over the petrol which would take many years to make back. But 9 years later I got it used for the price of an equivalent petrol and it saves me a fortune. The first owner mustn't have done a lot of research on the matter...

TJDMAX > MonkeePuzzle
08/08/2014 at 13:25

I would bet that if you ask all the people that buy a hybrid why they bought a hybrid, their answer would be something either about wanting to save the environment or to get better fuel economy....

I estimate 1% of people would buy a hybrid in the hopes that by doing so they are contributing to the research and development of better hybrids....

Saracen > TJDMAX
08/08/2014 at 13:29

That would be interesting, though it should be pointed out they are using EPA ratings, and diesels typically outperform EPA ratings...while hybrids seem to vary.

MonkeePuzzle > MojoMotors.com
08/08/2014 at 13:30

similar chart for diesel would be handy

HammerheadFistpunch > MojoMotors.com
08/08/2014 at 13:31

I would love to see the Subaru XV hybrid on there, that thing is a joke for CBA

MojoMotors.com > Saracen
08/08/2014 at 13:31

We tried pretty effing hard, too.

TJDMAX > Saracen
08/08/2014 at 13:32

Right....and where you live and how you drive and what tires you have etc all effect real mpg...so I agree that EPA ratings are usually high when talking about a hybrid or gas powered car, and typically low when talking about a diesel one, but for something like this they are the only real ratings to go off of. Fuel price would be another big variable for this test.

TheCraigy > Saracen
08/08/2014 at 13:48

So basically anyone buying one just wants to be able to say "it's a hyrbid."

Saracen > TJDMAX
08/08/2014 at 14:05

I calculated it just now for a Jetta 1.8T ($18,895, 32mpg) vs a base Jetta TDI Value Edition ($21,295, 36mpg).

At $3.50/gal of fuel, it would take 197,280 miles to recoup the cost...and this is with the TDI Value Edition which is a stripped out car. The decently equipped base TDI starts at $23,600. Granted, there is a new EA288 TDI for 2015, which sees its EPA rating improved to 46 mpg, and that lowers the break even point to 138,826 miles.

The new 1.8T engine really is a game changer.

Saracen > TheCraigy
08/08/2014 at 14:07

Yep.

It would be even worse if you compared it to a 328i or 320i!

TJDMAX > Saracen
08/08/2014 at 14:17

Thats about what i expected....Still a fan of the diesel engine though, but at the same time manufacturers are making their gas engines much more fuel efficient as well. Also diesel is typically higher priced than gas so that would only make the break even point further out...

Saracen > TJDMAX
08/08/2014 at 14:20

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out what to do next. My Golf R averages 22-23 mpg, and I'm putting 24,000 miles per year on it..

TJDMAX > Saracen
08/08/2014 at 14:29

I'm just guessing here but because you're on Oppo/Jalopnik you like cars that are fun to drive (like your golf r), and after seeing this study trading your car in for something that gets 5, 10, even 20mpg better than the golf you'll have to drive it thousands and thousands of miles before you'll see the benefit of getting something more fuel efficient. And typically as fuel economy goes up fun goes down. But as fun goes up price goes up and usually at a faster rate than when looking at a more fuel efficient vehicle.

It will depend on your needs. 24,000 miles a year is a lot (assuming a lot of those are highway miles?) so i would say look at something like a diesel that will do better than advertised mpg on the highway, and keep your golf r (if possible) as a fun car. Not that a tdi isn't fun but I can only imagine its not quite as fun as a golf r.

Saracen > TJDMAX
08/08/2014 at 14:31

Well, I would have two cars (an efficient dd, and a fun car) if I had the garage space. I have my condo on the market right now, so once I have it sold and find a house, I'll have the space to enact that plan.

TJDMAX > Saracen
08/08/2014 at 14:35

Right on. I like that plan. My DD used to be a 07 Chevy 2500hd diesel truck. Still have it and i'll never get rid of it. Unloaded on the highway it gets 18mpg easy, which for an 8000lb truck, with a 6.6L engine, 33" tires is pretty damn good. Diesels are awesome like that. My current fun DD car is a 2014 S4 I just picked up. Sure i could have gotten a regular A4 and been more fuel efficient but where's the fun in that ?!?!

StevenG > MojoMotors.com
08/12/2014 at 14:11

Why do they need to make the money back?
Does your miata need to save you money too?

SamJackson > TJDMAX
08/13/2014 at 09:26

I'm a fan of the diesel as well, and you can get some impressive milage in today's diesel models.

SamJackson > Saracen
08/13/2014 at 09:27

Wow, game changer indeed.

MojoMotors.com > TJDMAX
08/20/2014 at 17:35

Here you go. :)

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/is-buying-a-di…

BrieMineAlways > TJDMAX
08/21/2014 at 15:14

How about improving air quality in your area? That's a factor that doesn't translate into dollars well/often.

PS Mad props to the hybrid cabs in NYC (and any other super congested area) b/c I believe you're making a difference.

HardlyFatal > TJDMAX
08/21/2014 at 15:22

I bought my Prius because I'm going to be spending the money one way or another: either the car company gets it, or the oil companies do. I'd rather mine go to Toyota instead of those fuckers at Exxon, BP, or the Middle Eastern sheikhs with their solid gold toilets and 13 private jets.

Plus, I'm lazy and hate having to stop my life to fill up the car all the damned time.

Garrett > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 15:23

I presume this research is mostly valid for USA. Not Europe?

MojoMotors.com > Garrett
08/21/2014 at 15:24

That's right.

Where have all the lightweights gone? > Saracen
08/21/2014 at 15:26

In a lot of places in the USA, the price for diesel is also more expensive than petrol. That would be worth taking into consideration, too.

TheRev > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 15:27

Did you factor in the tax break you get on buying a hybrid?

TheSWolf > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 15:27

Also missing in this calculation is where you live. For example, some of the hybrids listed (Ford Fusion) will get you a green ezpass & HOV entrance even without another passenger in NY, which results in an extra $1 per day savings on the ezpass alone for someone like myself who commutes in and out of NYC to Long Island.

Saracen > Where have all the lightweights gone?
08/21/2014 at 15:28

And in some places, such as where I live, diesel is cheaper than 87.

bben46001 > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 15:28

This just takes into consideration the cost of gas, not the cost of maintenance - those very expensive batteries that allow a hybrid to use electricity part of the time do not last forever. And currently cost an arm and a leg just for the battery - add in the cost of a dealer changing them after a few years and your cost per mile skyrockets.

Aristotelian > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 15:28

You can't put a price on the smug liberal elitism that comes with a hybrid.

MojoMotors.com > bben46001
08/21/2014 at 15:29

That's why you could always go with the diesel route - http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/is-buying-a-di…

MojoMotors.com > TheSWolf
08/21/2014 at 15:30

Definitely another factor to be considered.

PeteRR > MonkeePuzzle
08/21/2014 at 15:32

Or one-upping your neighbors...

pixelpusher220 > TJDMAX
08/21/2014 at 15:32

I've bought my second hybrid because it allows me access to the HOV lanes. So for me it's saving easily 30 minutes per day. Not something available to new purchases anymore but lots of people bought them for that reason.

The civic price difference seems high, when I bought my 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid the cost difference was only about $3K and I got probably 180K miles out of it. They hybrid battery was dead but it was still perfectly functional (unlike Prius' which stop when the battery dies); Honda hybrid tech isn't as advanced but allows operation without the battery being functional. Sadly, they routed the 'battery bad' code through the check engine light system so I couldn't get my emissions...even though the engine was working perfectly and would have passed any actual emissions check.

dgstan > bben46001
08/21/2014 at 15:33

I'm curious. Where do you get your information regarding hybrid batteries? I am not aware of Priuses needing battery replacements ever. Ever.

Prius taxis go for well over 300,000 miles and I drove my Prius for 155,000. Do you have any data on the percentage of Priuses that needed new hybrid batteries?

pixelpusher220 > TJDMAX
08/21/2014 at 15:34

farther out but diesel engines also run much longer than gas engines in general so you have a longer viable timeframe to earn it back.

Jack > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 15:34

Come on people now people now, hybrid people driving people now, people now, people now..

Jack > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 15:34

Come on people now people now, hybrid people driving people now, people now, people now..

unwritten_law9 > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 15:35

I have a question about hybrids that I haven't found any good research on. How much does a cold climate effect hybrid efficiency? I've heard the all electrics dropping their range by 30%, but what about hybrids? I'm talking real cold climates, like actual temps -10°F to -20°F. Been looking to go the hybrid route for my next vehicle, but Minnesota winters can be brutal.

bben46001 > dgstan
08/21/2014 at 15:36

I did a quick google search on battery life and probably made the mistake of taking the first article that came up. http://www.csmonitor.com/Innovation/201…

Your result seems to be much better that what this one is reporting.

Darmok eats Challah at 12Nagra > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 15:36

How about the Honda CRZ? Two years ago, I saw plenty of them because they were sporty hybrids.

Battery Tender Unnecessary > Saracen
08/21/2014 at 15:38

Jeez, what about the X5, X6 Activehybrids? There was a $32k gap between the xDrive35i and the ActiveHybrid...and it only got 1mpg more... I think someone calculated it would take 350 YEARS to make up the difference with 15k miles a year and $3/gallon gas. In most science fiction universes we've colonized a good number of systems by then.

pixelpusher220 > dgstan
08/21/2014 at 15:38

my 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid battery lasted probably 120k miles. My Aunt's similar vintage Prius is still going, but she's still only got 60K on it so it hasn't had 'normal' usage either. All batteries wear out. You may not hear about batteries being replaced because it was too expensive for a 8-10 year old car that you just buy another car instead.

pixelpusher220 > unwritten_law9
08/21/2014 at 15:41

I'm in DC, I have noticed a drop in efficiency during some of our recent intense (for here!) cold snaps. My Aunt who lives in Rochester NY has definitely seen lower efficiencies in the much colder winters there in her Prius.

These weren't in the negative F temps even, just low teens.

mystixa > TJDMAX
08/21/2014 at 15:41

A good percentage of 'saving the environment' includes contributing to the research to make the overall technology better. That 1% is just a technically savvy and idealistic group within the other 2. There are a lot of people that cant afford (or think they cant) to be a wallstreet investor but do need a car. May as well contribute to improving things while burning a few dinos.

pixelpusher220 > Darmok eats Challah at 12Nagra
08/21/2014 at 15:42

pretty sure they didn't sell very well. People buying hybrids are generally not wanting super duper speedy. Honda also had the hybrid Accord that wasn't geared towards value but performance. They dropped it because it didn't sell.

The CRZ was a blatant attempt to capitalize on the (awesome!) CRX legacy...and it fell very very flat.

HockeyZ39 > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 15:43

Unless I have overlooked it, government/tax incentives don't appear to be calculated into these figures. Those incentives can add up to a decent chunk of money. I imagine if factored in these values would change quite a bit.

pixelpusher220 > TheRev
08/21/2014 at 15:43

I'd guess not since the major manufacturers no longer qualify for them. Something like 200K vehicles sold ever. Prius and Honda are well over that by now.

pixelpusher220 > Aristotelian
08/21/2014 at 15:44

Sadly you can't yet put a price on the damage done by fossil fuel emissions. That's coming though and then hybrids will be a much better value.

BoyGenius > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 15:48

I don't time much right, but I definitely timed the buying of my hybrid, accidentally.

I bought a Toyota Highlander Hybrid, and worked out how much I'd have to drive to recoup the extra. At first I made the same error this evaluation makes, assuming that the price of gas would stay the same. Of course, it doesn't. It didn't appear to pay.

I then looked at the price of owning the hybrid if the price of gas rose to $2.50. I calculated that I'd start seeing a benefit at just over 30,000 miles. I've now got 120,000 miles on my Highlander, I've never needed a major repair, and the price of gas has ballooned much higher than $2.50. It was a smart investment, and no matter how many consumer advocates and Clark Howard followers claim otherwise, it has and continues to save me money.

I'd buy another Highlander Hybrid in a minute ... and am considering one in the next year.

Don't forget additional savings, not directly attributable to gas mileage. For instance, with regenerative braking, my Highlander doesn't need a break job until 100,000 miles, vs. 30,000 or so for a typical car. At a conservative $300 for a brake job, I saved $900 by skipping three of those babies.

HockeyZ39 > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 15:49

Government / tax incentives don't appear to be factored into these calculations. Those incentives can add up to a good chunk of money and I imagine would change the values quite a bit.

HockeyZ39 > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 15:51

Government / tax incentives don't appear to be factored into these calculations. Those incentives can add up to a good chunk of money and I imagine would change the values quite a bit.

Saracen > Battery Tender Unnecessary
08/21/2014 at 15:51

Yeah, I think in that case the active hybrid is only a viable alternative to the xDrive50i...since it has 400hp and 450lb-ft.

iThinkergoiMac > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 15:53

This also assumes that gas prices stay stable, correct? If gas prices were to suddenly shoot upwards, the lengths of those bars could drop dramatically.

Don't get me wrong, this is pretty cool and illustrates why I'd prefer to just buy an efficient 4 cylinder car than a hybrid for the most part.

Ashish Jain > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 15:55

Well, in true form of calculating cost, we also need to see interest rate or avg investment of extra money, you spend on getting hybrid. For example, you spent $5,445 extra for civic hybrid. Now lets say, it takes 6-7 yrs in reaching break even point of miles driven. But $5,445, if invested, would have been doubled after 6-7 yrs. so practically, you are always trying to catch up break-even miles.

Hybrid makes sense, if you driving lots of miles per month. Otherwise it doesn't make sense from purely value-for-money point of view. Yes, being silent, less gas stops, more miles b/w refill.. these are pros of hybrid. So it's more of, what you want decision.

Battery Tender Unnecessary > Saracen
08/21/2014 at 15:55

In that case, "only" a $13k difference. :)

Malforus > TheSWolf
08/21/2014 at 15:58

Probably a reason prius and california were such BFFs up until the credit and HOV access ran out.

Saracen > Battery Tender Unnecessary
08/21/2014 at 15:59

What a deal!

marann > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 16:00

I am surprised that the Toyota Prius isn't listed. It's a fairly popular hybrid. I would be interested in those stats.

NovemberGold > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 16:03

It seems that any car that breaks even at around 100,000 miles is worth it. If you are buy your car brand new off of a dealers lot and keeping it for less than 100,000 than you are already wasting so much money it is beyond ridiculous.

Personally, I prefer buying a used Hybrid and really saving money.

J "oppo" Zeke > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 16:05

I thought the point of a hybrid was to save gas, not money. Active 3 aside, I think people who buy hybrids are willing to pay a premium to reduce dependence on oil.

I also don't think there's anything wrong with this mindset, if you pursue it openly. It's no different from buying any luxury good. A Kate Spade handbag does everything a Birkin does, a Seiko tells time as good as a Rolex, any smartphone does the business as well (if not better) than a Vertu. Hybrids are a luxury good, with an expressed purpose of being.

If you want to save money, try a small-engined diesel.

Dake > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 16:08

This is a great chart and the main take away for me is what I've always felt to be true - it's more about the statement than the real savings. It's similar to our electric provider. I pay for a "Wind Energy" plan here in Houston. It's a couple cents more expensive than the standard plan and I know that none of my electricity is actually coming from a windmill, but I'm willing to pay a little extra to support the technology and encourage further development.

I think for many people, the same holds true for hybrids. The savings aren't huge - if they exist at all - but it's worth paying a little extra to show it's a tech worth investing in. Also, using less is still using less. Of course, there's also the argument about the manufacturing of said hybrids and whether they're worse to build, etc, etc.

I also think it's even better to shop used for these vehicles. People tend to be leery of used hybrids even if they're only a year or two old, so the depreciation outpaces the hybrid mark-up. For example, the Kia Optima has a $4500 premium for the hybrid new, but a very quick search at Carmax finds a similarly equipped/mileaged Optima hybrid only has a $2k markup over the gas model. Based on the above chart you'd only need 60k miles to break even which is very realistic.

John Richardson > TJDMAX
08/21/2014 at 16:09

I'd be curious to know at what price per gallon for gasoline does make it a good decision to purchase a hybrid

JessDiit55 > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 16:10

last pay check was $9500 working 12 hours a week online. My neighbour's sister has been averaging 15k for months now and she works about 20 hours a week. I can't believe how easy it was once I tried it out.

This is what I do,,,,,,,,,,

www.Doesjobs.CoM

PhiLOL (slowcarSLOW-MPGlol) > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 16:13

No, it's not. It's extra weight and complexity that's ever-so-slowly gaining an advantage over gasoline engines.

Take a Prius. Put in any modern 2.0L engine and drivetrain. You'll get the same mileage thanks to its excellent aerodynamics and relatively low weight.

bobdallama > dgstan
08/21/2014 at 16:17

This was my concern as well, but found the same research into the prius taxis, and that pretty well squashed what lingering doubts I had. Also, it is surprisingly easy to replace a bad cell in the traction battery, and cheap too. More prius drivers wreck than wear out their batteries, hence the wide availability in junkyards.

dgstan > pixelpusher220
08/21/2014 at 16:18

Again, I would be interested in seeing any data that shows how long these batteries last. I don't know anything about Honda's setup, but I am pretty well-acquainted with the Prius. I was involved in our local Prius community as well as online forums. I have heard of battery packs being defective, but never expiring.

Also, the price to replace the batteries has come down significantly. You can find them in salvage yards for considerably less than $1000. This fact alone tells me there's not a huge market for replacement Prius batteries.

crayoneater > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 16:22

I'm actually shopping for a new car... looked at a prius (ehh), Subaru XV (normal and hybrid), Mazda Cx5 (no hybrid option) and the jetta... not sure what to do with it, but I'm leaning towards the mazda as the most reasonably priced, still suv (which I want) and not too bad efficiency wise. The mark up on the hybrids doesn't match the savings, not to mention that I drive rarely (I walk to work, suckas!)

John Dziki > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 16:23

Really bad graph. Stupid conclusion. Assumes gas will stay at $3.50 for life of car. Ya right.... Plus there you have to know that if you mostly take short trips your mileage is much higher. And look at turning it into home plug in.

MojoMotors.com > J "oppo" Zeke
08/21/2014 at 16:24

We ran an analysis on diesels, too. http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/is-buying-a-di…

MojoMotors.com > marann
08/21/2014 at 16:24

The Prius doesn't have a non-hybrid trim.

MojoMotors.com > crayoneater
08/21/2014 at 16:25

Technically that Mazda CX5 is a crossover.

MojoMotors.com > iThinkergoiMac
08/21/2014 at 16:27

Yeah. We only looked at gas prices if they remained at $3.50/gal.

Howard Blair > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 16:27

"...the hybrid wont relieve..." won't #corrections

MojoMotors.com > unwritten_law9
08/21/2014 at 16:28

Pretty sure there was a study on this and the changes in MPG during a winter was insignificant.

Platypus Man > Darmok eats Challah at 12Nagra
08/21/2014 at 16:29

This was only for cars that have a hybrid and non-hybrid option. The CR-Z is only available as a hybrid.

MojoMotors.com > Howard Blair
08/21/2014 at 16:29

Got 'em. Thanks.

Platypus Man > pixelpusher220
08/21/2014 at 16:31

I have a CR-Z and I love it, but no, it didn't sell very well. I got it mostly for the appearance, but the fact that it was a bit more sporty than the other hybrids was nice too.

Trin-Engr > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 16:35

Interesting, but now I KNOW I should NOT have traded my V6 Frontier for my Jetta TDI. Oh well, maybe when the Diesel Runner finally comes out, the numbers will be more in my favor...

What I'd also like to see is using the US historic trend for gas prices (increasing at about $0.20 per year, averaging out all the big spikes, see GasBuddy.com), it would be good to match that to an average mileage (maybe 12-15k/year?), and see how the chart is then "corrected"...

ragingpandabear > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 16:36

Unfortunately I did the same math when considering a diesel vs. gasoline car. Once I found out the cost increase for the diesel model and how long it would take to make the premium back in mileage, it wasn't much of a decision.

The same facts were pretty apparent to me when I took a brief look at hybrids premium costs. It's really got to be an incentive based on technological interests or the illusion of caring at least because in most cases, there isn't a cost savings to be had in the short term.

crayoneater > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 16:36

fair, suv-ish. More of an suv than my 2003 maxima.

BiffMagnetude > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 16:36

I do not know a single person who bought a hybrid or a diesel for savings. Some buy them because they fear peak oil and or pollution/global warming/planetary carbon storage is a concern so using less fuel is a responsible choice. Others buy them because they feel that fuel consumption is a foreign policy issue and using less allows us to import less from the Middle East.

I own a Diesel and ride a bicycle as often as possible for most of the reasons I listed. It never occurred to me that I would choose efficient travel choices to save money.

No matter what, dissuading others from hybrids is a terrible choice for jalops. Driving these things reduces demand for fuel and keeps gas prices lower than they might be for your guzzler.

gcodori > Saracen
08/21/2014 at 16:42

except for the fact the most tdi's get in the mid 40's in terms of mpg...My 14 year old tdi with 1/4 million miles on the clock still hits this mark. Ignore the epa figures when it comes to diesels, its quite easy to outperform them. Ask a ford fusion hybrid owner if they have reached 40 mpg yet (ford continues to revise the mpg figure down each year).

J "oppo" Zeke > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 16:45

Nice!

So reading the diesel review, I was wondering on a couple points.

First, the cost of gas you mentioned: is that the national average? I noticed a few models don't use regular gas either. While the A3 is recommended to use premium the A6 and BMWs can only use top grade fuel. The Cherokee V6 on the other hand, so that E85 aspect could throw some interesting light on figures.

In certain markets (I'm currently familiar with Chicago for example) the cost of premium can exceed diesel regularly. So here in the Big Windy, a diesel car is money ahead of anything with a premium fuel appetite from the get go. Regular gas can sometimes exceed diesel as well!

So for drivers to really understand what they're getting, you have to understand the important and nuance of regional differences. Plains states have deep discounts on E85 fuels, whereas cities have fuel prices that are so much higher that mileage differences start becoming a very concern.

I think this is a great start to an important study, but without taking into account these very real situational differences people can't make informed decisions if their goal is just to save money.

Finally, the performance differences between hybrids/gas and diesel/gas cars can't be ignored. For Jeep drivers, that diesel might become very worth it if they are regularly towing. VW drivers shouldn't even consider a small towing setup without diesel. Drivers who do long highway stretches will experience fatter wallets with bladder-busting diesel range, versus those who experience high mileages in city stop and go where hybrids excel.

This isn't a study that's easily broken down to a quick set of figures, but it's a very very important one to help build cultural intelligence on the subject.

MojoMotors.com > crayoneater
08/21/2014 at 16:46

The ground clearance is definitely SUV-like. We wrote about that here - http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/is-your-crosso…

dal20402 > PhiLOL (slowcarSLOW-MPGlol)
08/21/2014 at 16:48

Maybe on the highway, if you geared the ICE powertrain just right, you might come close. In the city there is no chance. A lightweight 2.0l car in the city would probably get around 25 mpg. The Prius breaks 40 with ease.

For some reason people are very reluctant to understand that hybrids have a bigger advantage in some types of driving than others.

SamJackson > J "oppo" Zeke
08/21/2014 at 16:50

You're totally right. Most people who buy a hybrid are doing it to save the trees, not to save money.

SamJackson > iThinkergoiMac
08/21/2014 at 16:51

Yeah, gas prices are definitely dynamic, but we figured that our estimates were close enough to average out over time.

kis_ev > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 16:51

I own both a turbodiesel and a hybrid (01 VW Golf TDI and 07 Lexus Rx400h). I bought both of them used with 4 years and 80K miles for about 60% off the original MSRP. I haven't an issue with either one and both have their pros and cons.

We drive the diesel for most trips longer than 10 miles and it averages 45mpg and is moderately modified. My wife drives the hybrid and we mostly drive it shorter distances but still get 28mpg on 87 octane. The Lexus replaced her 94 Integra which only got 24mpg (it always ran rich no matter how I tuned it).

From my experience, buy used if you want to save money.

JGrabowMSt > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 16:58

I'm genuinely surprised the two Hondas didn't pay for themselves sooner. I mean, they're fairly inexpensive cars to begin with, and they get very high gas mileages, and the hybrids even more so, as evident by their MPG increases being the highest.

I occasionally drive a Honda Insight, so I'm used to how Hybrids act on the road, and while I've never driven a car and it's hybrid counterpart, but I'm curious as what what reason caused those cars to take so many miles to pay for themselves. Is it just the MSRP or final purchase price? I can't imagine maintenance costs a huge amount, those cars just keep on ticking, and don't require much other than regular fluid changes and tires to stay on the road.

Any thoughts on that specifically?

Meowton, we got a problem... > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 17:01

Environment, yes, but am I the only one to have problems in winter? If I leave it alone for 3 days I have to re-start the battery, which doesn't occur in the summer.

Robbert Michel > TJDMAX
08/21/2014 at 17:03

I drove a Prius because it was quiet. No endless motor hum while driving to work every day. Also, I only had to tank once in two weeks, even though I drove 190K before the lease ended after 4 years. After all that, the battery was just fine too. :)

Timeforjeans > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 17:04

I see a minor issue with the Civic Numbers. Looking at the feature sets, the Civic hybrid falls more in line with the EX trim than the LX trim you compared it too. The difference between a civic ex and base hybrid is $3500 not the $5400 as LX.

http://automobiles.honda.com/tools/custom-b…

STREPITUS > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 17:04

I did a report on this same exact topic for my high school statistics class years ago, except instead of miles, I did years (assuming a 12,000 mile/year average). Looks like its gotten better - back then the worst offender (Lexus GS vs. GSh if I recall correctly) would take 116 years to make up the difference. Quickly looking up the numbers for the 2007 GS line, the price difference back then was $10k for 3mpg better in the city and 1mpg WORSE on the highway (total 1mpg better average - 22mpg for the GS350, 23mpg for the GS450h). Gas was about $3.60/gal when I did this report, so what do we get? At 12,000 miles a year, you're spending $1,964/year to fill the gas car and $1,878, for the hybrid - a savings of $86/year. To offset the $10k premium in just fuel cost would be just over 116 years, but that wouldn't matter since you'd never catch up with all the battery pack replacements you'd need to do over the course of that century. Granted this was a very crude "study" and didn't take changing fuel prices into account, but still.

The best car in the set I looked at was the Civic vs. Civic hybrid which was a payoff in about 6 years.

room88 > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 17:07

Hmmm.. I pay an average of $550 a month for 45 mile commute and was actually thinking of going the hybrid route..

vkewalra > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 17:10

The dealer talked us out of the Highlander hybrid when we asked about it, citing how many miles it would take to make up the insane markup. We weren't really interested, but had seen a bunch of them around the city. Now whenever I see them I immediately tag the owner as somebody with no common sense who wants to look like they are environmentally conscious.

CrymeLord > MojoMotors.com
08/21/2014 at 17:10

The only problem I have with the chart is that the price of gas is fixed over the lifetime of the test. Where does $3.50 come from. Seems low to me. What is the projected average price of gas over the time it would take to drive, say, 100,000 miles which would be around 8 years.

What would be an idea chart is one that is interactive and allows you to dynamically change the price of gas.